Vonkajsi filter



Technika - filtrácia akvária, problémy s osvetlením, kryty na osvetlenie, reverzná osmóza, aktívne uhlie, ohrev akvária....

Odoslaťod vikino » 18 Feb 2009 16:47 pm

bruno136 - zober radsej tiez ten co ja. je ovela lacnejsi a prave si ho objednavam. je za 82 eur. a je pre 300L akva. no pre 400L isto bude stacit, no rozhodni sa ako chces. :)
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Odoslaťod bruno136 » 18 Feb 2009 17:06 pm

Aj to je moznost, ale to by som asi objednal mensie aq. nie 180x50x45 aje 150x45x45 a stacil by aj ten lacnejsi. Len neviem ci mi bude stacit 300L miesto 400L akvarka. Hmmm musim porozmyslat.
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Odoslaťod bruno136 » 18 Feb 2009 19:19 pm

No fajn. Tak to dam na tych 165x45x45 to je cca 300L cisteho objemu. A bude teda stacit ten Eheim 2236 ( 2036 novsi model ) ? Tie su do 300L. A bude to dost aj pre malawi?
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Odoslaťod vikino » 18 Feb 2009 19:31 pm

až až... :)
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Odoslaťod matus » 19 Feb 2009 10:13 am

ecco comfort 2236 je tak trosku na hrane, a navyse ak mas malawi ...
pozri tu http://www.akvaprodukt.sk/vyber_vyrobok ... m_classic&
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Re: Vonkajsi filter

Odoslaťod Giftzahn » 19 Feb 2009 10:30 am

njn, EHEIM Ecco comfort 2236 by ti mohol stacit...sak ho vezmi a ked zistis ze nestiha mozes vziat este jeden...aj to je riesenie.... 8)
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Odoslaťod brano BA » 19 Feb 2009 10:39 am

Zdravim vsetkych.

Prosim vas, neviete mi poradit, kde by som mohol zohnat filtracnu vatu do ext. filtra JBL Cristalprofi???
Ostatne naplne su OK,len ta vata bola uz dost zanesena,tak som ju musel vyhodit a teraz ta voda nieje az taka cista :(

DAKUJEM
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Odoslaťod Giftzahn » 19 Feb 2009 10:45 am

brano BA napísal:Zdravim vsetkych.

Prosim vas, neviete mi poradit, kde by som mohol zohnat filtracnu vatu do ext. filtra JBL Cristalprofi???
Ostatne naplne su OK,len ta vata bola uz dost zanesena,tak som ju musel vyhodit a teraz ta voda nieje az taka cista :(

DAKUJEM


napis mi ss, mam jeden velky balik filtracnej vaty dokonca je od JBL ...mozem kusok postradat :mrgreen: (mozno aj dva) , inak kupoval som ju bud v Hornbachu alebo v Biotope- zial ten je uz minulostou :cry:
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Odoslaťod bruno136 » 19 Feb 2009 10:51 am

matus napísal:ecco comfort 2236 je tak trosku na hrane, a navyse ak mas malawi ...
pozri tu http://www.akvaprodukt.sk/vyber_vyrobok ... m_classic&

Podla mna ked vyrobca pise do 300L tak tam musi byt este nejaka rezerva a na to 300litrove musi stacit. Budu tam len skaly a rybky. Ziadne rastliny. Ja viem su aj silnejsie, ale je rozdiel ked nieco bezi non-stop a zere to 8wat. a ine je ked zere napr. 20 wat.
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Re: Vonkajsi filter

Odoslaťod TropheuS » 19 Feb 2009 10:52 am

Ako som tu uz niekolko krat podotkol, udaje na Eheimoch su dost neobjektivne. Ja som ho mal a bol urceny myslim pre 350L akva a prietok uvadzali 900 alebo 950L/h a na 225L Tangu to vobec nestihalo. Cize zase podotykam EHEIM riadne predimenzovat a zvlast pri afrike :!:
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Odoslaťod bruno136 » 19 Feb 2009 10:57 am

Kedysi boli filtre jeden molitan, odtial trcala rurka z ktorej vysla bublinka raz za pol hodiny :) a ryby boli zive a zdrave. Dnes by ste pchali pod tie aq niektory aj motory z lietadiel a furt mate malo.
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Odoslaťod Giftzahn » 19 Feb 2009 11:06 am

bruno136 napísal:Kedysi boli filtre jeden molitan, odtial trcala rurka z ktorej vysla bublinka raz za pol hodiny :) a ryby boli zive a zdrave. Dnes by ste pchali pod tie aq niektory aj motory z lietadiel a furt mate malo.


njn, volakedy som za 50,- Kcs...natankoval plnu nadrz do volgy 21, hodil obed a este mi dost koruniek zostalo :mrgreen: ale preco sa branit tech. inovaciam/pokroku...tie vyrobky su tu, dostupne, overene,so slusnym pomerom cena/vykon ...preco nepouzit? :lol:
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Re: Vonkajsi filter

Odoslaťod TropheuS » 19 Feb 2009 11:10 am

to bruno136: Vyskusaj a uvidis :o
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Re: Vonkajsi filter

Odoslaťod bruno136 » 19 Feb 2009 11:14 am

TropheuS napísal:to bruno136: Vyskusaj a uvidis :o



Tak co potom? Fluval 305? bude stacit?
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Re: Vonkajsi filter

Odoslaťod Giftzahn » 19 Feb 2009 11:17 am

bruno136 napísal:
TropheuS napísal:to bruno136: Vyskusaj a uvidis :o



Tak co potom? Fluval 305? bude stacit?


njn, zober tu 405 a mas po probleme :wink: a ak mozes zbehnut do rakuska..urcite ho aj za peknu cenu zozenies :)
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Odoslaťod dagoo » 19 Feb 2009 11:20 am

Volakedy, ked boli molitanove filtre a jadzili Volgy :o ludia nechovali take specialitky ako teraz, ale bezne zivorodky, skalare, tetricky atd.
Cichlidy su celkovo narocnejsie na filtraciu.
Ja som mal vo svojej 420 Fluval 404 s prietokom 1300 litrov a k tomu vnutornu hlavu Powerhead 302 s prietokom 300 litrov (cize 1600 litrov na 420L akva, cize 4nasobok za hodinu)a vobec som nemal pocit, ze by to bolo vela, skor to bolo optimalne.

Ten Eheim, co Tropheus pise, som videl na vlastne oci a sam ho inicioval k tomu, aby ho nahradil niecim vykonnejsim nakolko ten filter ocividne nestihal riadne filtrovat uvedeny objem, ktory bol v rozmedzi udavanom vyrobcom.

Takze Bruno, tu rezervu by som bral z opacneho konca a radsej hned na zaciatku zabezpecil nieco vykonnejsie ako potom nadaval a zhanal dalsie..
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Odoslaťod bruno136 » 19 Feb 2009 11:27 am

Tak teraz mi pripadaju do uvahy dva. Fluval 405 za 157€ alebo Eheim classic 2217 za 140€. tak ktory?
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Odoslaťod Giftzahn » 19 Feb 2009 11:45 am

bruno136 napísal:Tak teraz mi pripadaju do uvahy dva. Fluval 405 za 157€ alebo Eheim classic 2217 za 140€. tak ktory?


pzri sem tu je porovnanie FLUVAL vs EHEIM : http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7080 :wink:

SETUP AND EASE OF USE

Setting up eirther one of these is no big deal. We have come a long way from the old Eheim buckets.

The Eheim is unusualy as it has dual imput hoses but this serves well as one can be placed at eirther end of the tank with the spraybar in the middle to improve flow around the tank. The Eheims one piece tap connector is innovative and easy to use if a bit stiff sometimes and it can be difficult to connect the hose to the central connector.The flow rate indicator seems to work well however if you ever left the filter long enough to use use it you shoudl be ashamed of yourself as it takes months and months of heavy use to clog this filter. Another negative with the Eheims set up compared with the Fluval is the seperate baskets they are relitively easy to use but not as easy as the Fluvals one piece set up. The Eheim uses a simple 1 pump priming system that works most of the time with a single pump although we did find ourselves pumping it a few times to get it going now and then and you can actualy see the filter fill up as the cannister body is see through. The filter has wheels so you can remove it for cleaning (beware full of water it weighs a ton) and a tray for placing the pre filter in so you can carry it to a bucket to rinse it out. Its generaly a very easy filter to use in most respects and the fit,finish and fittings scream quality no cheap plastics used and everything is solid. The Eheim is considered the Mercedes Benz of filters and they are built like one ..solid and full of engineering quality that only the Germans seem to be able to do.
The Fluval uses large 25mm hose of a non kink design with seperate taps and this system is possibly the easiest system I've ever seen on a cannister ...just attach the hose ...click in the taps and turn them on and your away it really is that simple. That said for a large filter designed to be used on large tanks the Fluval comes with a bare minimum of hosing just enough to use of a 6x2x2 and your out of luck if you want a bit extra to attach a UV unit or use on a higher then standard tank or cabinet ..come on Fluval ! this amount of hose is absurd ! Another easy to use feature of the FX5 is the central connected media baskets surrounded by the foam (all 25 litres of it !) they hold far less then the Eheim but are so easy to fill and fit back together with the only negetive being that you must remove the whole unti to change the foam on the Fluval where as on the Eheim the foams are changable without removing any baskets. On the upside there is a drain plug (with one of those easy to use click fit taps) on the bottom of the filter so you can drain the water out before moving it which is easier on your back and also offers the ability to use the pump to drain water out of the tank for water changes which is a interesting and innovative feature if you don't need to gravel vac. The Fluval does not have a self priming system per se it must be filled with water manualy before being switched on but there is no sucking on hoses due to its main feature a microprocessor controlled smart pump which when turned on starts the siphon by pumping the water out of the cannister which it seems to do quite well then pausing for 3 mins to allow trapped air to escape.After the priming sequence has finished it restarts itself automaticaly (it can be a long 3 mins waiting for it to restart wondering it its primed itself properly) it also stops itself once per day for 3 mins during normal operation to allow and air that might have been trapped to escape again. Much has been made of this so called "smart pump" and many people have questioned its reliability. We saw no reliability problems with this pump but we cannot say the same of the whole auto prime system. Does this smart pump work? We say "sort of" sometimes it primed itself perfectly but on many occaisions (about 50%) we had to switch it off and start another priming cycle before it was fully primed. The amount of air that stil lescaped after this 2nd priming cycle was substancial enough to say that while certainly a great feature its not foolproof yet.

NOISE
Both filters are quiet by modern standards but the Fluval is a lot noiser then the Eheim measuring out at 43db @ 1 meter vs the Eheims 19db !
The Fluval is quiet but the Eheim is so quiet you have to check it see if its working !

POWER CONSUMPTION
Filters are used 24/7 365 days of the year so power is important. The Eheim is the clear winner here averaging 27w against the Fluvals 51w so the fluval would cost nearly twice as much a year to run as the Eheim.

FLOW RATE
Manufactuers rate their filters by the maximum produced by the pump under ideal conditions without media and things like hoses which isn'tvery helpful in the real world. Most cannisters seem to get less then 50% of their rated flow capacity when used in the real world but both these filters did better then that.
The Fluval showed a flowrate of 1991 litres per hour when full of media and connected which is about 57% of its rated pump capacity of 3500 l/ph but the Eheim did even better giving 1207 litres per hour out of its possible 1700 l/ph for a amazing 71% !
This still gives the Fluval a nearly 800 litres per hour flowrate advantage when used in real life situations but filtration is more then flow alone its also about capacity.

MEDIA CAPACITY
Both filters are huge and hold a lot of media however the Fluval contains 25 litres of foam media around the sides of the baskets and only will hold about 6 litres of bio and mech media in its baskets while the Eheim holds a full 12 litres of bio and mech media and only has about 2 litres of foam.

Will the bigger flow rate of the Fluval make up for its lack of media ?
.


THE FILTRATION TEST


Mechanical filtration
We wanted to test the ability of these filters to remove particals from the water so we emptied a big container of tetrabits near the intakes. The Filters both did a great job catching most of the gunk in their pads but if I had to give to one of them I'd give it to the Fluval that 25 litres of foam really can catch some gunk!

Biological Filtration
The most important function of a filter is its biological filtration capacity and here is the best test for these filters. The clear winner here was the Eheim taking only 11 days to cycle the 700 litres of water from 4ppm of ammonia to Nitrate only vs the FX5's 13 days. It just shows that that extra 6 litres of bio media in the Eheim more then makes up for the 800 litres per hour flow advantage the Fluval has. a 2 day difference is quite significent and its more then we expected.

CONCLUSION A matter of price
While the Eheim is the clear winner in the performance stakes the decision is not clear cut. The Eheim is the better biological performer and has a better % flowrate when full. Its a lot quieter and holds a lot more media and uses less power then the Fluval. So its a no brainer to the Eheim on most areas right? Well no ... The fluval still does a excellent job its a bit easier to set up and it does a slightly better job at mechanical filtration and and here is the big kicker .... IT IS ABOUT HALF THE PRICE OF THE EHEIM So while the Eheim is clearly the better filter here I cannot honestly say its twice as good as the Fluval... issues of reliability and longevity not withstanding. If moneys not a issue its got to be the Eheim but the Fluval is a very good filter and its attractive price is going to win it a lot of fans. As for me personaly I like the Eheim better but I also have 6 FX5's for tanks where I can't justify the cost.
The only real winner here is us ...we have 2 great filters to choose from that both do a great job.

EDIT : MARCH 2008
I've had no less then 5 ...yep 5 out of 6 FX5's exhibit problems with simply stopping all together or clogging after only a couple of weeks resulting in very slow flowrates.
I now have only 1 FX5 in operation out of the original 6.
I have had zero problems or issues with the Eheims.
I must conclude that the Fluvals are not nearly the same quality as the Eheims.
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Odoslaťod bruno136 » 19 Feb 2009 12:05 pm

A keby si to prelozil?
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Odoslaťod vikino » 19 Feb 2009 12:14 pm

ja by som siel do eheimu. su kvalitne, tiche a maju nizsiu spotrebu. S Fluvalom mam skusenost a nie velmi dobru.

prelozit? daj si to do googla a ten ti to prelozi.. :)
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Odoslaťod matus » 19 Feb 2009 12:34 pm

bruno: ak si z blavy, tak nemas co riesit, cesta do viedne a mas pokoj ...
ak nie: tak nieco objednaj u nas alebo si postav vlastny externy filter, navod mas na hlavnej stranke
Podla mna ked vyrobca pise do 300L tak tam musi byt este nejaka rezerva a na to 300litrove musi stacit. Budu tam len skaly a rybky. Ziadne rastliny...

1. ved prave preto, ze tam budu len skaly a ziadne rastliny musis mat velmi vykonny filter
2. ak tam budes mat 1 cichlidu tak ti staci aj eden501 :wink: ...(trosku joke), jasne, ze to zavisi predovsetkym od poctu ryb, ak ich nebude vela, bude ti stacit aj eheim 2215, avsak pravidelna vymena vody ta neminie
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Odoslaťod bruno136 » 19 Feb 2009 12:45 pm

A co teda rovno EHEIM professional III 2075 tam mozem aku maximalnu nadrz pouzit pre Malawi?
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Odoslaťod matus » 19 Feb 2009 14:33 pm

bruno136 napísal:A co teda rovno EHEIM professional III 2075 tam mozem aku maximalnu nadrz pouzit pre Malawi?

opakujem-radsej sa pytaj kolko ryb budes mat v akvariu ...
a co sa tyka vyberu filtra, tak ja som myslel, ze chces vela muziky za malo penazi ... jasne, ze mozes zobrat aj 2075-ku a bude to cool 8), vyrobca doporucuje na 600l (filtracny objem ma 6,5l, cize skoro to iste ako eheim 2217, ten ma 6l a stoji skoro polovicu), alebo za tu cenu by sa dali zohnat uz dva filtriky ako ma jedozúbok (ergo giftzahn) :roll:

premyslaj, pocitaj, rozhoduj ... :?
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Odoslaťod Giftzahn » 19 Feb 2009 14:38 pm

jedozubok :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: .... no spat k filtru....ako vravi matus, nadrz mozes mat aku chces,potrebujes,zmesti sa ti,paci sa ti, manzelka/frajerka ti povoli :P .... zalezi od poctu rybiek aky filter / filtre budes potrebovat.....
z vlastnej skusenosti mozem len odporucit 2 filtrove riesenie...sam take pozivam u seba v 200L akva
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